The Etiquette of Holiday fics

[geoviki]

Like all the rest of you, I'm delighting in the reams and reams of new stories and art (and this year's art is especially terrific!). There's the granddaddy, merry_smutmas, and then others like harry_holidays, hd_holidays, smutty_claus, lupin_snape.... an embarrassment of riches!

As we are encouraging each other as writers and artists, I'm trying to leave feedback as well. One thing that caught my notice, though, has left me feeling uneasy, and I wondered what your views are: In your opinion, is it uncouth to leave concrit that's negative on a fest fic? (Disclosure: this is not anything that's happened regarding my own fic, just other folk's.)

I don't see the author requesting any, for one thing. Personally, I won't do it, but then I never leave anything less than praise unless I'm asked specifically and privately. If I don't like something, I just pass it by. Which unfortunately is the same response to something I've not yet read, so the writer is never sure if I'm unhappy or just behind (if the writer even cares what I think), but there you go.

But IMHO, these stories are gifts. And I can't see criticising a gift. Am I over-sensitive? What do you authors and artists think?

Comments

personally -- and this is all just my opinion

[kagyakusha.livejournal.com]

If I can't leave completely positive comments for an anon-gift fic, then
I try to avoid commenting on it at all.
IF, on the other hand, it was a fic written for me, then I would try to find a way to thank them for writing me a fic without necessarily touching on the things I don't like -- while I think that once you've put your work out in the world then any well-thought out criticism is appropriate, my mother taught me that you should never ever criticise a gift!

[arsenicjade.livejournal.com]

It's completely innapropriate. COMPLETELY. There may or may not be a time and place for concrit--and I agree, that time and place is generally when it has been asked for and is relayed in private. I realize that I differ from the large majority of fandom in thinking this and I know that people believe that if a story is placed in the public eye it is open to that which comes at it.

That said? A fest where people are writing stories from prompts that other people have given them, attempting to best fill those prompts and everyone is anonymous and clearly has not granted consent to be given concrit?

NO.

There's no other word for it.

[urnesha.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. If a story sucks I just pass it by, I don't leave negative crit. I don't know the writing capability of the author but it takes a lot of guts to put your work out there for the world to read. If I like it I say so, if I don't I move on.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

arsenicjade pretty much summed it up for me. Yes, these are gifts and they should be treated as such.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think it's appropriate at all, not while the fest is running. After the reveal, when everyone takes their fics and goes home, so to speak, the fics are open for con crit and reviewing just like everything else. But IMO, while the fics are still considered gifts, negative reviews and con crit is completely inappropriate. Especially if the fest is anon and the writer can't say anything to defend him/herself if s/he is so inclined. The fics will be out there for the rest of eternity; if someone really feels the need to give them negative reviews, they've got forever after the reveal.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Like you, I approach fest stories as gifts. I think leaving negative feedback to an anonymous gift fic closely mirrors this scenario:

In a spectacular moment of OOCness, the cast of HP are all celebrating Christmas together, and they're just in the midst of opening gifts.

Draco: omg a pony! Pansy, you shouldn't have!
Kreacher: That's the ugliest pony I've ever seen. Draco Malfoy deserves a better pony. Look at it! It's black. It should at least have a silver mane.
Harry: Wow, Ginny, thanks for the nose hair trimmer! That'll, uh, really come in handy.
Kreacher: Ridiculous. The filthy half-blood has received a gift that is completely useless, since he doesn't even have any nose hair, at least not if fandom is to be believed...
Dumbledore (conveniently back from the dead): Socks! I love socks! Who gave me socks? Was it you, Minerva? omg I love you. Gimmie some sugar.
Kreacher: Socks are for fags.
etc.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*sporfle*

I love that the "anon" commenter here is being compared to Kreacher. :-D

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i do leave concrit, yes, because i think it would be dishonest to leave that out and only say what i liked about a fic [well, if these things really bothered me]. i feel that most people appreciate if you mention what didn't work for you as a reader. i don't leave comments on stories that i didn't like at all. of course there are also stories that i adore 100% and i don't hesitate to say that :).

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

huh, after reading the other comments i now feel like i must be the most horrible person ever because i don't only squee on fest fics. i don't quite understand why there's a difference between leaving concrit on anon fics and on fics that has the auhtor attached to it.

[accioslash.livejournal.com]

I'm probably overly sensitive, but I wouldn't post con-crit for any fic on any LJ besides my own. If I'm going to offer con-crit to an author I'll e-mail them privately. And I would never criticise a gift-fic, especially if it was written for me.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I'm with you -- I don't post unsolicited concrit at all. If I read a fic and like it enough to read to the end, I always make a comment. I point out what I liked, and I usually leave it at that. If it's someone I know fairly well, I'll sometimes point out a part that confused me. If I see a typo, I'll point that out (and appreciate it when people do the same for me).

But I guess criticizing a gift someone created for someone else just seems a bit rude to me, honestly. For example, I wouldn't criticize what my sister got my mom for Christmas, no matter how atrocious I thought it was. If my sister asked for my opinion on her choice of gift, I would give it, but unsolicited? That just doesn't feel right to me. :-P

[primroseburrows.livejournal.com]

If I see a typo, I'll point that out (and appreciate it when people do the same for me).

I do that. Typos aren't a reflection of the work that a writer puts into a story, and I know that I like it when someone else points typos out for me.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

Concrit, in and of itself, is a gift as far as I'm concerned. It's important to me as it helps me grow as a writer. If all the comments are "SQUEE THAT"S GREAT", then I'm wondering what they're really meaning. There is always room for improvement and I appreciate that people feel comfortable enough to point out where there might be that improvement.

As far as seeing the author request any, there really isn't an opportunity for it, is there? I always request concrit on my "regular" works and would if given the option on the anon exchanges. Perhaps there should be a concrit: Yes or No option when submitting fic/art.

Finally, concrit is different from criticism as far as I'm concerned. Concrit says, here is a small plothole or this phrase was awkward. Criticism is ZOMGYOUSUCK.

/ramblings.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Except...even if the author was cool with concrit, half the comments would be about things they wrote by request. The author would probably feel fine about that, but the recipient would feel terrible, and presumably that's not what you want when you're posting a gift fic.

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

it puts the giftee in an awkward position of having to either defend their gift or ignore the criticism . . . I thought the author might think I was implicitly agreeing with it.

Absolutely.

Criticism of a gift is also a thwack at the good taste of the receiver, unless the receiver would enjoy complaining about the gift too.

[spacetweenears.livejournal.com]

For the fest fic, I would give the negative concrit if asked and do it one on one. :D

[elfflame]

I feel pretty much the same. It's uncomfortable telling someone that sort of thing about a fic they've (hopefully) probably sweated blood over to get in on time. The only time I like to leave con-crit is when I have expressly talked with the author about it beforehand, really.

[slytherincesss.livejournal.com]

I think the general consensus typically is that it is indeed uncouth to leave con-crit for a gift!fic.

[ex-marcasit.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm of the opinion that concrit should be acceptable as long as it is, indeed, constructive. I've seen some comments that made me wince because they just seemed overly critical, and there was no implication that the reader found anything to like. I can't understand leaving any feedback if that's the case.

I have to admit, it never even occurred to me to not offer any kind of concrit when commenting, because to me that's an inherent part of feedback. But thinking about them as gifts does put a different spin on that original perception. I guess mileage varies.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Even the mods of yuletide, who in their real fannish lives are totally in support of open critique on any published fanfic, frown on negative criticism for the yuletide stories in the same way one might tell a child not to tell their aunt/uncle that the hand-knitted reindeer sweater they gave as a gift was stupid and ugly.

[iulia_linnea.livejournal.com]

It's completely inappropriate to leave concrit on a giftfic. If I don't like a fic given to someone else, I won't leave a comment at all because it might ruin the experience of participating in whatever fest for both the gifter and giftee of the fic in question.

[aliciajd]

I just read an excellent mystery H/D fic and was quite stunned by other's concrit. Much of the criticism addressed a small amount of het and bottom!Harry. Neither complaint felt at all valid to me, especially since this was a gift fic and the author was trying to meet the giftee's requests. I felt very uncomfortable reading many of the comments. It seemed like a feeding frenzy was started with the first negative remarks and things just snowballed.

These anonymous fest fics ought to be allowed to experiment a bit and to break out of people's preconceived molds without garnering so much negativity.

If nothing else, if I watched a person opened a gift that I didn't like, I would never say anything negative about it.

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

Much of the criticism addressed a small amount of het and bottom!Harry.

These can't be concrit by definition. They are just the expression of the reader/shipper's preferences, nothing else. Concrit has to do with the execution: pacing, flow, characterisation, canon-compliance, etc. Who fucks whom? Nope. :)

[seshat1.livejournal.com]

Normally, I wouldn't, but I did leave one comment this year along those lines. However, it was a really good fic except for the (incredibly jarring) beta comments left in and it was sometimes hard to tell which was the correction. So I commented saying how much I liked the fic (it really was very good) and that they should take out the edits. I felt bad, but I thought the author should know - they might have forgotten or sent in the wrong version or something. *shrugs*

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Was that from a Harry Holidays story a few days ago? What I did was emailed the mods, pointed out the comments, and suggested that the wrong file might have been uploaded. The corrections were made almost immediately.

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

My main thought is that I see concrit from anyone other than the giftee as being more irrelevant than anything else. Yes, tasteless, but mostly irrelevant. The fics written for these exchanges sometimes have extraordinarily specific parameters given and the gift is tailored to one individual's request, rather than having been written for the wider enjoyment of the fandom at large, or a specific segment of it. I mean, larger enjoyment is certainly hoped for, but it's icing. If the recipient is happy, that's the main thing, IMO. If not, then I think that they have the right to give concrit, but I think that's fairly tasteless, too. UNLESS the author specifically disregarded the requests in some way. For instance, if my gift fic came with an A/N that went to the tune of: "Sorry, I know you said any of these pairings [list], but I hate all of them, so I wrote you Kreacher/Filch instead. Also, I can't write bottom!Kreacher like you requested at all, it just squicks me, so you'll just have to deal", I'd be pissed off. And probably make mention of that in my comments. If the author, and I think that the vast majority do, has tried to fulfil the requests and the recipient is happy, then everyone else's concrit is sort of beside the point, as I see it. Oh, and also inappropriate. :P

[mayflo.livejournal.com]

"Sorry, I know you said any of these pairings [list], but I hate all of them, so I wrote you Kreacher/Filch instead. Also, I can't write bottom!Kreacher like you requested at all, it just squicks me, so you'll just have to deal"

Good grace, that'll piss off anyone, even if it's not your request. The whole point of an exchange is totally void there XD

But I feel sorry for whoever had to write for me cos I might've overdone and asked too many things... *sheepish*

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

If I don't like the fic, I don't comment. So the opposite is true too: if I commented, one can be sure I liked the fic. So I usually comment and say what I liked.

And have another side to what everybody's saying here: I think I don't do concrit on anon fests 'cos who am I speaking to? I value my time and words to be wasting them speaking to I-don't-know-who.

OTOH, I don't do much concrit in non-fest time either.

On the mysterious third hand, if there are many typos, I'll probably say something about them in my comments, like, "Loved your fic but there are lots of typos, so you might want to fix them." 'Cos you know, typos just indicate the author's carelessness.

And on the forth hand (spider? or what?), when posting a rec of a fic I liked, I'll mention caveats which I didn't point out in my feedback -- 'cos this? Are for the readers, not for the writer, and the readers deserve to know what I thought to be less stellar in the fic.

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

If it were specifically for me, I wouldn't make any negative crits. If it were available generally, it would be intellectually dishonest for me to say it was all good if it wasn't.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i completely agree with that, and that's why i'll certainly continue to point out if something bothered me when leaving an otherwise very positive review.

but i'd never leave negative fb on a fic for me because the person tried to write it for me and i respect that effort.

[parthenia14.livejournal.com]

In terms of feedback on these things, it seems polite to comment positively unless it's clear that they're after concrit; on the other hand as a reader, I like the approach of some of the people commenting/reccing Christmas stories in their own journals, because they're saving me time: a good rec will make me persevere when all too often these days I'll press the back button very quickly.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

There are always going to be things that don't strike me as 'perfect' in all fic, but the very last place I'd say anything about that would be in the comments section of anonymous gift fic, especially if it's about things that the anonymous author would have included at the recipient's request.

I mean, you might as well be posting a comment that says "God, your recipient was a freaking moron, asking for these elements!"

People. Feh!

[andstillitmoves.livejournal.com]

I occassionally come out to read things this fest season, and then I scramble back in my cave. For me to leave comments on anything I've read would be simply falacious and also a misrepresentation if they were purely positive, and also, I think somewhat puerile. Fic written for fic is a gift, but it's also art, and it functions best AS art- no matter the prompt, if you can't find your own truth in the receiver's wishes then it's just going to be a cobbled together clip show of what you think might make the person happy, and er, that probably deserves to have concrit all over it.

[mereol.livejournal.com]

I agree with 98.8% of the the other commenters here. Then again, I'm not prone to leaving either concrit or negative feedback, either. I tend to 'squee!' a lot when I like something and try to scrub my brain if I don't.

Good thought provoking post.