Gratuitous overuse of the frog analogy

[geoviki]

A recent book review in our newspaper read:

Wallace Stegner writes ... that the difficulty with explicit sex in novels is that it invariably usurps all else that the author is attempting to accomplish:

"The trouble with excessive sexuality, in novels or in life, is that it is so compellingly interesting and attention-holding that it makes everything else seem tame or dull; it crowds off the page whole areas of human experience and human feeling that belong there but can't maintain their foothold."

Such is the case in Sue Miller's newest novel, Lost in the Forest. Although Miller's exploration of grief and self-discovery is both compelling and insightful, the sexual trysts of 16-year-old Daisy are so unforgivingly explicit that Miller's attempts to uncover the depth of who Daisy is are muddled by a nipple here and an arched back there....

I thought this over and decided that somewhere, I had crossed over to where this wasn't true for me. I've noticed that after reading fan fiction for nearly two years, I no longer find excessive sexuality all that distracting. It's like the classic analogy of the frog in slowly heating water: little by little, I no longer notice the erosion of my ability to be shocked, tittilated, or even surprised by graphic writing. I have become comfortably numb.

How about you?

Aside: Does anyone have an mp3 of Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven that I can, er, borrow? Got it. Thanks, Paula!

Comments

[mereol.livejournal.com]

If I'm reading a good fic, sex (whether graphic or not) becomes the cream filling in an oreo. Delicious and thoroughly enjoyable but not enough to distract me from enjoying the rest of the cookie.

"filling" is not "filler"

[gilded-kage.livejournal.com]

In a great fic, I agree sex is the filling, part of the whole. In some fics, on some days, I peel away the cookie entirely and discard it; I run my tongue over the chocolatey, fudgy inner part and slowly devour it until it's gone.

[hearts-n-roses.livejournal.com]

Here ya go:

Stairway to Heaven (http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=05292S7IIRBSU0L6OJVF7P0Y33)

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Thanks! My husband has learned how to play it on the guitar but wanted to try accompanying the original song. Does every guitar student learn this? Because I was taught it, too, years ago.

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

You know, I think I've become comfortably numb, too--great way to put it! When I first discovered fandom I couldn't get enough of the sex, but now I'm kind of "eh" about it. A lot of times I'll actually skim/skip the sex so as to get on with the good stuff, and I'm much more inclined to fade-to-black in my own writing than I used to be. It's actually a bit sad, I think, as it's become very, very rare that I'm titillated by sex scenes anymore. :-/

Sad that you are so rarely moved by the sex

[gilded-kage.livejournal.com]

Then why read slash at all? That would be my question. Why not read books instead?

Not a criticism in any way, just a question. I often read slash for the great writing, myself.

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

I tripped over your post from the frog analogy (snickers at self), and wondered about the question.

Perhaps yes, fanfiction did get me over-exposed to sex, and published fiction really can't compete in the titilation area.

I'm reading Samuel Delany's Neveryon books right now, and for something that's bothered readers/critics for its explicit gay pr0nny sex, it doesn't seem at all "in the way" to me. Hey, gives me more time to think more about his nutsy critical theory writing style, instead. So maybe it helps.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I tripped over your post from the frog analogy

You know, I thought of you when I typed that in! Wondered if you'd prick up your ears. Er... do frogs have ears?

Hello (hello, hello), is there anybody in there?

[primroseburrows.livejournal.com]

*sings* When I was a child, I had a fever...my hands felt like two balloons...

Okay, going to sleep, now.

Re: Hello (hello, hello), is there anybody in there?

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Now I've got that feeling once again, I can't explain, you would not understand, this is not how I am...

Did I use these lyrics in my soon-to-be-posted fic? I did!

[darkrhiannon.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree. Unfortunately, one of my formerly favorite authors has fallen off the deep end from this very thing. Laurell Hamilton, who first few books I adored, has turned into a porn queen Mary Sue hack, and I think the review you cite points to part of the reason why. I think sometimes the problem isn't so much that the reader is distracted by the sex, as it is that the *author* is...know what I mean?

-Rhi

[iulia_linnea.livejournal.com]

The last Anita book was painful that way, wasn't it? *sighs*

[iulia_linnea.livejournal.com]

Actually, after reading fanfiction, the sex in traditional novels seems tepid, bland, and without creativity of any kind. I used to think while reading sci-fi battle scenes, "Insert galaxy raider here, two explosions, one death-defying race to ship, end battle scene." Now when I read "literary" porn, it's, "Insert Tab A into Slot B---wait! obligatory fight interrupts passion---resume fucking," or some such. I'm afraid I've been spoiled by the Internet; I can't think of any sex scene in any book I've read in the last two years that interests me.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I'm such a bimodal reader I have no basis to judge published fiction. Nearly all my reading of published books is non-fiction. And then I read reams of fanfic. But I suspect the fanfic smut writers are more advanced in sexual portrayal, perhaps because of the enormous amounts of practice we get - both in writing it and reading it. We have a lot of material to compare.

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

I like the Oreo analogy above - I'm not only happily desensitized to the smut; if the cream in the Oreo isn't there, I'm not eating the dry cookie part! I want it all, damn it! If properly used, sex is the ultimate writer's tool. It enhances everything. It can be used so many different ways - for tension, for angst, for resolution, for crime, even. I love it. :)

Funny that you should have just posted, when I'm in the thralls of re-reading ATBT in completion again (i.e., rather than just my favourite scenes!). I love it. I love being lost in it. So glad you wrote it, and that's it's just there, whenever I need to read it. :)

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I think you said a lot by calling sex a "tool", though. It's got to serve the story. I know a lot of writers will slap on the "PWP" label on stuff that's short and graphic. But to me, if the story's got a point to make, and the sex helps make that point, it's not just gratuitous smut. However, if it truly is just "oh, here they are, let's get it on", then I do lose interest. I've just read too much of it.

[cordelia_v]

I've noticed that after reading fan fiction for nearly two years, I no longer find excessive sexuality all that distracting.

Well, I wouldn't say that I've gotten to the "comfortably numb" stage yet. But yes, I know what you're referring to. Actually, reading so much great fanfiction with good sex scenes has mostly just made me much pickier about the quality of the erotica. To really pull me in and interest me, the sex has to flow out of strong characterization, and be very well described (and also be used as a "tool" in the sense that [Unknown site tag] means, above, in terms of carrying forward the story).

I didn't used to have such high standards before I joined this fandom. Of course, this fandom has more high quality porn/erotica than I was ever exposed to, before.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Of course, this fandom has more high quality porn/erotica than I was ever exposed to, before.

Interesting you say that - I don't have much experience outside this fandom, so I haven't much to compare to. I felt a small flush of pride for our fandom, there: oh, we're the best sex writers evah!

You know where I really notice the change over two years - when I talk about/skirt around what I write with my RL friends. Used to be I was very closemouthed about all aspects of it, but now that I'm so accustomed to the topic, I say more than I probably should.

[snowpupgirl.livejournal.com]

I agree that the sex shouldn't be "insert tab a into slot a" *kiss kiss* talk of randomness, *snuggle* repeat.

It should have a plot. Then the sex scene should fit into the plot, be molded by the plot and affect the plot itself.

Sometimes I skip to the sex. Sometimes I skip *over* the sex. A truly great fanfic, to me, makes it all work together beautifully.

I'm not numb to it. But if it doesn't have a plot, ok, yeah, I'm numb to it. I've probably read something just like it before, yet with a plot and meaning. Same with the smutty pictures. If there is a short story to go with it, or even if the picture is from a fanfic I'm reading, that makes it *SO* much better...

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

But if it doesn't have a plot, ok, yeah, I'm numb to it. I've probably read something just like it before,

And that's just it, isn't it? It's hard to write sex that's never been done before (unless one brings in the squid, and that's just a maybe), so without the plot, I feel like I'm reading the equivalent of summer reruns. Especially fics that seem to think they have to describe every movement and angle.

[arsenicjade.livejournal.com]

Oh hell yes. I barely even notice it anymore. I've had people point it out to me and I'm like, really? But I'm sort of glad, because it means that I can concentrate on stuff that I found more engaging in the first place. And two years nothing, man. Wait till you've been around six or seven.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I find myself having to be very careful talking about certain fics IRL. And I get caught trying to think of an intro fic to recommend to people who've no idea of fanfic, and have to stop and think - oh, not that one, it's got twincest, or a blowjob, or ....

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

here via the daily snitch.

i've had a similar experience to iulia_linnea in the sense that i have become so accustomed to explicit descriptions of sex in fic that i find everything i see in published fiction completely dissatisfying. i'd never noticed before how many writers use a fade to black even if the description of the scene would be crucial character development. in those cases, i feel that important information has been withheld from me. if i've learned one thing from fanfic, it's that what kind of sex characters have, how they relate to each other in that moment, what goes through their minds etc. can generate complex insights into those characters. if that gets left out, something is definitely missing.

i'm not saying that each story/book needs to have explicit sex in it, just that if the author makes sex an important component of the relationship between the characters, i'd like to know what's going on there. and in more than three sentences.

completely unrelated to this, i saw that you said in another comment that the sequel to a thousand beautiful things will be posted next week! *twirls* i just rearead that story, and found it to be just as enthralling and marvelous as the first time i read it last summmer. i'm so excited for the sequel :)

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

i find everything i see in published fiction completely dissatisfying.

That's been the most surprising thing I've learned from people posting to this thread. I don't read a lot of published fiction, so I had no idea.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

You know, I find that I'm very critical of sex scenes in profic now. It's been a long time since I read a sex scene in a novel that I thought was half as erotic as what I read in fanfic every day. Many sex scenes in profic come across like newbie PWPs, with too much emphasis on the action and not enough on what it means for the characters involved.

So does that mean that I'm numb to it, or that they don't write it well? Maybe it's a mixture of both. Maybe you have to be fairly numb to the shock of reading explicit sex before you can step back from it and analyze what makes something hot and what makes it mechanical, what makes something work for a character and what seems out of character.

If that reviewer was distracted by the sex scenes, I'd be inclined to think it's probably his problem to an extent. If he isn't used to reading that sort of thing, I can see how it would be distracting. OTOH, maybe it really wasn't well-written smut, either.

Have you read the book in question?

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

If he isn't used to reading that sort of thing, I can see how it would be distracting.

That was my first thought, too. And the second, third, and fourth were to think up recs of fanfic that would change the reviewer's perceptions!

I haven't read the book. I found the review quote far more interesting.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Never had a problem with excessive sexuality in fiction, unless it's the kind that shits me off (uber-dominating masculine OMGIANTPENISSS!!11one kind of 13-year-old-male-writer crap), but I was like that before I read fanfic.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I hadn't read anything like fanfic before, so you were far ahead of me in that. But I'm a quick study. :-)

[viverra-libro.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know if I'm so much "blah" about the sex, as I am more interested in the psychology of it, particularly in darker or more extreme situations. I think I maintain appreciation for well-written regular sex, but what I really look for is kind of an explanation of *why* and *how* the activity works for the participants. Ack! Did I just say I was into the emotion of it? Ack! ::washes brain with soap::

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Well, the "experts" seem to agree that the lure of fanfiction isn't the graphic mechanics but the emotion and characterization. Otherwise we'd just buy Playwitch and be done with it, I suppose.

And I think darkfic is a genre where fanfic writers are far more adept and talented, and come up with more creative plots, than published authors.

Re: Here via the Snitch

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

No, I don't look for smut for smut's sake. What I really love is plot. So I agree with you - if it serves the plot and is not the same-ol' same-ol', I'm a happy reader.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

It's cool you used Transfigurations as your example. I think that was the third fic I ever read, and it just blew me away! I think I could recite the sex scenes to you even now, because it was so well done. But not over-beautified. One of the most memorable things to me was when they stopped in mid-screw and changed positions. And I was - oh, that's so realistic.

I must admit, though, I've read a few fanfics that think the opposite: that the story is all about the sex. And rather than feel aroused, I'm just plain bored.

[sine-que-non767.livejournal.com]

Everyone said it all in the comments, really, and I agree - but I wouldn't say being 'numb' is as negative as it sounds. To me, it's rather that I've learned to separate the wheat from the chaff. Before I'd read much erotica/porn, I would devour anything with sexual content and be happy for the most part. I just wanted to read about sex! But now sex has been returned to its rightful place in the narrative, as a helpful tool. glossing and musesfool put it very well here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/musesfool/854899.html?thread=12065907#t12065907):

'Sex gets elided *so* frequently in the canon/mass culture that fanfic's become for me an awesome window on an entirely ignored dimension of the characters.

Yes, exactly. It's the stuff we rarely get to see (or see done *well*) and it's an important facet of characterization - how does this guy behave with his girlfriend? The stranger he's picked up in a bar? The first time he has sex with another guy? His ex? etc.

And in boyslash, especially, where there's often little room for deep discussions of feelings, the act of sex can tell a lot about where the character is emotionally - content, desperate, angry, numb, etc.

also, sex is so badly written in published (non-erotic) fiction that I think people tend to minimize its importance. We'll often see the resulting fall out from people having sex (divorce, revenge, murder, depression, etc.) in fiction without seeing the cause from which these effects sprung, and what it says about the characters.'

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I used to fall into reading even half-baked stories all the way through because of my fascination of reading actual, graphic sex. And now I have my finger on that back button, ready to move on, because I don't need that. I don't want just physical, I want the stuff behind it.

[spinfrog.livejournal.com]

been a while since I've read a book with anything more than "she's had many lovers, but none as exceptional as him" or some such, but I have noticed that while watching movies I don't want the characters to have sex.. like, The Interpreter - I was just so happy that all they did was hug! Not sure if that's related..

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Now I'm thinking about how I react to sex in movies. I don't think I've seen enough of those scenes to decide, and when I have, it was too often with my mother or my daughter, which took me out of the moment somewhat...

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

And what's so interesting is the big gap between books, which dance around sex, and TV/movies that can't seem to focus on anything else. TV, in particular, is focused on sex talk - and in the most adolescent, 13-year-old-boy way. All innuendo, no substance.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

It depends how it is written. So far, sex scenes all too often are still pausing-story-insert-sex and that might be the case with the book you quoted the critique from. If it is not integrated in the story, all the slash writing hasn't made me more forgiving, as it throws me in slash fics as well.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I think how the sex fits into the story should be what readers judge, not just the explicitness of it. The whole quote caught me by surprise, because I'd never thought that outside fanfic, sex scenes were much of a stumbling block. Guess I thought wrong, huh?

[scoradh.livejournal.com]

I have been thinking about this for days.

I have become comfortably numb.


Yes, I have. I came into the fandom through reading a yahoo article describing, of all things, a Snarry exerpt. While the whole idea of fanfic -- clearly! -- intrigued me, I swore never to read above a PG rating.

Yeah, that lasted all of a week.

It was only by getting a journal that I found the real hardcore stuff and yes, it shocked me initially, particularly amanuensis1's stuff. I did like it, though, despite a distaste for BDSM.

However, the point is that my RL friend was surfing my journal and came across an explicit Ginny/Harry/Draco threesome -- I do believe it was by florahart. She was utterly shocked. I had to pretend I didn't know it was there, to save face...:)

As for myself, I find porn gets oh so very generic. As minnow_53 said, the minute you can interchange Adam and Steve for the characters' names it's gone. I find many novellas descend into an almost-squalid repetition of sex this, suck that, bugger that one. I do find it boring and I do think the author has to be supremely talented to carry it off. *coughnotlookingatanyoneinparticularcough*

Mmm, anyway. I see ADSoT is up! *squees in undignified manner* Expect one of my embarrassing reviews in the near future. :)