No, of course you may not!

[geoviki]

Lots of posts are cropping up about the Open Source Boob Project aka Let me feel you up, honey, and empower you at the same time! Do not read if you have high blood pressure. It's the most disgusting thing I've read in years.

But thanks to friendsfriends, I discovered that ankaret has also found this gem of a post from our erstwhile liberator, theferrett: (oh, and note the double-t spelling. Some poor woman named "the ferret" is finding herself mistaken for the intarweb's biggest pariah this week).

Yes, you have made yourself so attractive that I'd like to bang you.

I just don't have enough WTF icons for this clusterfuck.

Comments

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Wow, that post makes his whole apology sound pretty fucking hollow. I mean, people do change their minds about things all the time, so for all I know he's changed the way he thinks since 2005, but still. How completely offensive.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Innit?

I think it's just a matter of same shit, different year. Except he's learned how to couch his lechery in PC talk these days. So much for his alleged honesty and openness.

[reddwarfer.livejournal.com]

Dude....just a big heaping pile of wtf.

Oh, and if I hear the term manchild again? I may puke.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Him, his original post, his frantic yet lame attempt to justify his lechery (but...my wife wimmin did it too!), his desperate backpedaling ETAs -- there's just so much about the whole thing that induces projectile vomiting, methinks.

[wicked-socks.livejournal.com]

Okay, I didn't think I could be grossed out any more by that guy, but that second link sure did the trick.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I started in on the second post's comments, but they were so much of the "Wow, tell it like it is, bro," that I just had to stop.

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

...Wow. Just WTF. Have you seen his passive agressive apology yet?

It's just. GAH. WTF.
Though, uh, the tags people are giving his entries are sort of hilarious.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, the "You are obviously interrogating this from the wrong perspective, you frigid beotches" ETA. A separate but equal piece of shit work.

[elizardbits.livejournal.com]

You know, I can't help but wonder if he'd remain so open-minded about this so-called sexual freedom if he was on the receiving end of unwanted physical attentions from a large, strapping Chelsea muscle queen who condescendingly told him that it was his own fault for having a nice ass, and then detailed with obnoxious glee precisely what he intended to DO to that ass.

I'd love to round up a few of my friends who used to go-go at SBNY and test this theory. FOR SCIENCE.

*snicker*

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I think someone in those pages and pages of comments to his post have suggested just this, and I suspect he weaseled his way around it with a cry of "But that's not the same thing at all." Still, if it's for SCIENCE... *evil grin*

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Yanno, at the risk of being terribly un-PC and a traitor to my sex and all - and keeping in mind that I'm only tangientially aware of all this via my flist, but I did read the guy's account of the thing -- several things occur to me.

First, that there is an opportunity to hear something about the male experience of sex and desire. As horrific as it may be to us ladies, it has long been said that men think constantly of sex.

Second, I find it ironic that so many slashers - who objectify male bodies through their fic - are so horrified. When I first got involved in the online slash world, I was deeply disturbed by the objectification of male actors that I saw among these female fans. Given that we ladies have healthy libidos, would it not be the better part of wisdom to at least listen to what these guys are saying about how they experience desire?

Third, I think your second fellow illustrates a dilemma that women often face: the desire to appear sexually alluring, but at the same time to tell guys to "keep hands off." No wonder guys are so confused. Personally, I do not find anything at all liberating about women running around dressed in their underwear. What the kids wear these days! I'm kind of glad I have a son, because if I had a daughter, I would make her adhere to an Islamic sense of modesty. Not a veil, nor the burka, but to dress in loose-fitting clothing that covers the shoulders and down to the knees. Having travelled in Muslim countries, I can testify to how liberating it felt to dress in a manner that covered my body.

Please note that I'm not justifying the Open Source Boobs Project. But I do think it would be nice if we could listen, and express our own views in a civil manner.

(Okay. Let the flames begin.)

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Note to other readers of this comment: we are both friends and have met IRL, so there's a level of comfort between us in discussing stuff like this. Remember that she is primarily addressing her comment to me if you choose to reply. OTOH, she's no delicate flower, either.

Yeah, I suppose we do disagree about most of this, but you say it so politely that I can't flame you.

But I do think that American society has given plenty of opportunity to the male expression of sex and desire. We're up to our eyeballs in it. Every third movie is along the lines of Superbad. Listening to what guys are saying about how they experience desire isn't the problem, as I see it, it's the corollary he's trying to sell: "I like to fondle women's boobs so let me do yours. And yours. And yours." The aura of "it's for your own good" makes it even worse.

And I think there's a huge difference between what goes on in our brains and what we act upon. In fact, that's an argument carried out in so many incarnations on the internet that it's probably got a number (Gimme the Number 7 with a side of male entitlement, hold the wank...) So this guy had what he thought was some kind of holy tit experience with a group of like-minded friends. Okay, whatever. What his post was about, and what set me off the most was mainly his attempt to encourage this behavior to spread to other cons (the 'Open Source' part of his post.) Because to him, what he experienced was what everyone will/should experience. And he made it worse by implying that women who didn't buy into the BS of it just "Don't Get It."

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I meant to point out that both posts are from the same guy. So it makes me deeply suspicious about the heavy coating of PC he's given to his recent foray into getting some. The fact that his wife (a part of the Project) is defending him all over his posts is also a little offputting. I can't begin to fathom the dynamics behind their relationship and don't want to try.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Oh, and one more thought before I head off to bed.

It's not uncommon for some slash writers to "objectify male bodies through their fic," but I think that's not the primary focus of the genre. At least from my perspective, the stories I write and the ones I enjoy reading are written to explore male relationships by means of various plots and problems they face. And the more mature the writing, the less it's focused on the bodies. Not to say that I don't enjoy the sex it usually resolves into, but it's sex for a purpose.

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

So basically he's saying women who get raped were asking for it, with the "well, yes, you put your ass out there".

He. Just. Doesn't. Get. It. Bet his real name is Wendell, he's 29, fluent in Klingon and lives in his mother's basement.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Sadly, he seems to be married, and that's his wife all over his comments in the recent post defending the boob grabbing, because see, she's a woman and she was okay with it all, so it's okay, right? Right?

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I had to stop reading the replies, because I was just...yeah, BLERGH.

[parthenia14.livejournal.com]

That is beyond creepy (although, what's with the masochistic entry tags?) and the responses are just...yerrrrrch. I suppose it's setting out the exact ramifications of a particular male gaze but there is something incredibly, nastily adolescent about his view of women's bodies.

Something to print out and show to one's adolescent daughter, I suppose. 0.o. Except - what's his definition of 'begging for it', anyway? i have occasionally seen women in clubs dressed in a way that makes me hope they have a taxi booked at the end of the night but most women I know dress to, you know, look nice and attractive and all that, not to ensnare men at all times. I thought that geeks knew this better than most.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I am answering you so that it doesn't look to everyone else like I'm snubbing you, but we've chatted online about this, so shall I whistle a tune here to fill up the space? *hmmm, can't figure out how to type whistling....*

[ellid.livejournal.com]

This guy really comes across as a stereotypical Joe Trufan: He goes to SF conventions, he works in high tech, despite having a wife he has no comprehension whatsoever of what is appropriate to say or do around women, and he has a misogynistic streak a mile wide, cleverly disguised as shock that anyone would object to his oh-so-innocent ramblings.

He also doesn't seem to have the slightest idea that his stupid little joke would be offensive, or sexist, or just plain tasteless. He may well have a mild form of Asperger's, although who knows?

Regardless, he's an idiot. He also doesn't like women very much. I wish I knew whether he goes to cons in New England, because I'd love to try the Open Source Kick in the Balls Project on him....

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

You know, I though of Asperger's, too, because he seems to think that socialization cues are so black and white. In addition, he is cleverly manipulative with words, so it's clear he's intelligent. An ass, but an intelligent one.

[norton-gale.livejournal.com]

It's one step away from the rape "defense" that "she was asking for it by the way she dressed."

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Burkhas for everyone, it seems, so that Ferrettface won't be tempted any more and blame us.

[scoradh.livejournal.com]

The annoying thing? If you retaliated with 'How would you like it if I went around groping your dick?' any guy would be all HELL YES.

Why is that? Why do women have to feel disempowered by groping and men just turned on? It's not FAIR.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

It's because they imagine 'you' grabbing their dick. If we were to say to them, "How would you like it if everyone who wanted to got to grope your dick, including my dozen gay friends here," I guarantee they'd have a different answer.

Seriously, though, men are too often ignorant of the real-life threat of violence that comes along with unwanted sexual attention. It's not a lapse that comes easily to women.

[orpheus-samhain.livejournal.com]

I agree with jeridita, especially with her second point. While I read his post I was constantly reminded how fandom (mostly women) write about males. As objects, in short, turning them into sex beings to realise some hidden or not hidden desires. Me too. So how can I point at him and say "creep"? I can point at myself.

I know that he asked real women and fandomers write about fictional characters, but the thought and need is the same.

About 'proper dressing'. The rule of proper time and occasion always applies. This isn't about defending rapists, it's about avoiding the dangers. And in crowded places (buses, etc) I don't like to meet with naked skin, I'm repulsed by it.

Some women get off on the fact that men (random men, not their husbands or boyfriends and the likes) are salivating at the sight of them, and will do anything to get their attention. They forget/don't know/don't care that men's thinking about sex is a bit different.

To me, it's a matter of refinement and manners, and this guy clearly lacks this, he seems a bit simple but still, it's not a cardinal sin. I tend to ignore this kind of people, annoying as they are.

[frantic-mice.livejournal.com]

I know that he asked real women and fandomers write about fictional characters, but the thought and need is the same.

I guess there is supposed to be some level of objectification when I read about Harry sexing it up with Draco, but if I didn't care about who Harry and Draco was then why would I want to see them sexing it up? I don't objectify, and not because I'm an enlightened human being with the sort of open mind that Mr. Ferett would like to see and touch more of, but because objectification in my case would lead to *head nod* *plonk* indifference, sleepiness, boredom and a whole open-mouthed yawning. If I went for porn, I'd go for porn. Why waste hours of my time clicking to see if I can find an IC, original, well-written, story about two guys who may or may not have sex and where if they do I am likely to just skip the yada yada to m e not very sexy sex to the next dialogue bit? I just want lots and lots scenarios (PG to NC-17) where the Caped crusaders, Wizards, Cowboys, Pirates, Detectives are homosexuals, or asexuals, or pansexual. Anything where their sexuality makes them a little weird, like I'm a little weird.

My mom? She's not so interested. She loves to read about people in Asia because she thinks the women there are culturally similar to the way she was brought up. Weirdo.

[roisindubh211.livejournal.com]

That second link there- the comments do scare me. Cause, on the one hand, i totally get where he's coming from (Dress sexy= please look and appreciate) but on the other...he's so self-righteous about it. Far more than is warranted.

The comments freak me out, and not just the "tell it, brother!" type ones- there's one woman insisting that nobody has the right to *talk* to her while she's dancing. I can understand if she was pointing out that men should really stop doing that thing where they come up behind you and start grinding into you without so much as a 'hello', but talking? That should be ok. I can say "no thanks" if someone asks me out/for sex/to dance/to drink with him. I have done so many times. It's not a violation of my freedom that someone decided he wanted to try.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

I think what gets me most is how the whole subject is reduced to black & white: he's claiming that if women are in anything less than a burkha, she's sexually provocative and he has the right to respond as such. Whereas, we all know that the subtle sexual messages we all give could fill a library.

[lagreyeyes.livejournal.com]

Ah! So this explains what happens to the sniveling little worms that never got laid in high school.

They turn women into science projects and simultaneously get their rocks off.

What a toad.

[mayflo.livejournal.com]

Nuthing to do with your post here but I just wanted you to know that I have a wee gift for you! Come look! :3

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Gya. Okay, I don't even want to go there, but I was pointed to the fantastic Open Source Women Back Each Other Up Program (http://vito-excalibur.livejournal.com/173664.html), which I am wholeheartedly endorsing. (and seems to be maybe a response?)

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it is a great response. Sometimes good things come from bad beginnings, and yay for that.