The Etiquette of Holiday fics

[geoviki]

Like all the rest of you, I'm delighting in the reams and reams of new stories and art (and this year's art is especially terrific!). There's the granddaddy, merry_smutmas, and then others like harry_holidays, hd_holidays, smutty_claus, lupin_snape.... an embarrassment of riches!

As we are encouraging each other as writers and artists, I'm trying to leave feedback as well. One thing that caught my notice, though, has left me feeling uneasy, and I wondered what your views are: In your opinion, is it uncouth to leave concrit that's negative on a fest fic? (Disclosure: this is not anything that's happened regarding my own fic, just other folk's.)

I don't see the author requesting any, for one thing. Personally, I won't do it, but then I never leave anything less than praise unless I'm asked specifically and privately. If I don't like something, I just pass it by. Which unfortunately is the same response to something I've not yet read, so the writer is never sure if I'm unhappy or just behind (if the writer even cares what I think), but there you go.

But IMHO, these stories are gifts. And I can't see criticising a gift. Am I over-sensitive? What do you authors and artists think?

Comments

[seshat1.livejournal.com]

Normally, I wouldn't, but I did leave one comment this year along those lines. However, it was a really good fic except for the (incredibly jarring) beta comments left in and it was sometimes hard to tell which was the correction. So I commented saying how much I liked the fic (it really was very good) and that they should take out the edits. I felt bad, but I thought the author should know - they might have forgotten or sent in the wrong version or something. *shrugs*

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

My main thought is that I see concrit from anyone other than the giftee as being more irrelevant than anything else. Yes, tasteless, but mostly irrelevant. The fics written for these exchanges sometimes have extraordinarily specific parameters given and the gift is tailored to one individual's request, rather than having been written for the wider enjoyment of the fandom at large, or a specific segment of it. I mean, larger enjoyment is certainly hoped for, but it's icing. If the recipient is happy, that's the main thing, IMO. If not, then I think that they have the right to give concrit, but I think that's fairly tasteless, too. UNLESS the author specifically disregarded the requests in some way. For instance, if my gift fic came with an A/N that went to the tune of: "Sorry, I know you said any of these pairings [list], but I hate all of them, so I wrote you Kreacher/Filch instead. Also, I can't write bottom!Kreacher like you requested at all, it just squicks me, so you'll just have to deal", I'd be pissed off. And probably make mention of that in my comments. If the author, and I think that the vast majority do, has tried to fulfil the requests and the recipient is happy, then everyone else's concrit is sort of beside the point, as I see it. Oh, and also inappropriate. :P

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

If I don't like the fic, I don't comment. So the opposite is true too: if I commented, one can be sure I liked the fic. So I usually comment and say what I liked.

And have another side to what everybody's saying here: I think I don't do concrit on anon fests 'cos who am I speaking to? I value my time and words to be wasting them speaking to I-don't-know-who.

OTOH, I don't do much concrit in non-fest time either.

On the mysterious third hand, if there are many typos, I'll probably say something about them in my comments, like, "Loved your fic but there are lots of typos, so you might want to fix them." 'Cos you know, typos just indicate the author's carelessness.

And on the forth hand (spider? or what?), when posting a rec of a fic I liked, I'll mention caveats which I didn't point out in my feedback -- 'cos this? Are for the readers, not for the writer, and the readers deserve to know what I thought to be less stellar in the fic.

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

Much of the criticism addressed a small amount of het and bottom!Harry.

These can't be concrit by definition. They are just the expression of the reader/shipper's preferences, nothing else. Concrit has to do with the execution: pacing, flow, characterisation, canon-compliance, etc. Who fucks whom? Nope. :)

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

If it were specifically for me, I wouldn't make any negative crits. If it were available generally, it would be intellectually dishonest for me to say it was all good if it wasn't.

[parthenia14.livejournal.com]

In terms of feedback on these things, it seems polite to comment positively unless it's clear that they're after concrit; on the other hand as a reader, I like the approach of some of the people commenting/reccing Christmas stories in their own journals, because they're saving me time: a good rec will make me persevere when all too often these days I'll press the back button very quickly.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

There are always going to be things that don't strike me as 'perfect' in all fic, but the very last place I'd say anything about that would be in the comments section of anonymous gift fic, especially if it's about things that the anonymous author would have included at the recipient's request.

I mean, you might as well be posting a comment that says "God, your recipient was a freaking moron, asking for these elements!"

People. Feh!

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Was that from a Harry Holidays story a few days ago? What I did was emailed the mods, pointed out the comments, and suggested that the wrong file might have been uploaded. The corrections were made almost immediately.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Even the mods of yuletide, who in their real fannish lives are totally in support of open critique on any published fanfic, frown on negative criticism for the yuletide stories in the same way one might tell a child not to tell their aunt/uncle that the hand-knitted reindeer sweater they gave as a gift was stupid and ugly.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Except...even if the author was cool with concrit, half the comments would be about things they wrote by request. The author would probably feel fine about that, but the recipient would feel terrible, and presumably that's not what you want when you're posting a gift fic.

[andstillitmoves.livejournal.com]

I occassionally come out to read things this fest season, and then I scramble back in my cave. For me to leave comments on anything I've read would be simply falacious and also a misrepresentation if they were purely positive, and also, I think somewhat puerile. Fic written for fic is a gift, but it's also art, and it functions best AS art- no matter the prompt, if you can't find your own truth in the receiver's wishes then it's just going to be a cobbled together clip show of what you think might make the person happy, and er, that probably deserves to have concrit all over it.

[titti]

I knew that story must have prompted this. Some of those comments were totally inappropriate, especially since it was such a good story, very elaborate, with an original plot. To say that it doesn't work because Harry would never bottom it's so stupid. I wanted to answer and ask when in canon does it say that Harry would never bottom? And does that apply to Draco only? Is he fine bottoming to Snape? *heads desk*

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you've put your finger on my problem with it - the author has to wait until after the reveal to respond! When I get criticism I want to be able to explain my reasoning RIGHT AWAY!

[mereol.livejournal.com]

I agree with 98.8% of the the other commenters here. Then again, I'm not prone to leaving either concrit or negative feedback, either. I tend to 'squee!' a lot when I like something and try to scrub my brain if I don't.

Good thought provoking post.

[karadin.livejournal.com]

well, I had to pop in for my two cents, I cruised some holiday fics, and was surprised at the first quite critcal comments, mostly because they began with this didn't work and this didn't etc. It may be because the postings are anon, people feel they have the freedom to say what they want, as opposed to say, seeing a BNF name on a fic, I rarely leave negative feedback, I usually post what I enjoyed about it, and if I have a question about something that didn't scan for me, I ask it.

If the author has chosen to write a bottom Harry or rentboy Draco or what have you, it doesn't matter to me, I take each fic as a new expereince, I don't intend to make a story conform to my desires, hell, I've found my favorite fics by reading pairings and sceanrios that I didn't think would appeal, it's up to the author, as always to make it work. Sorry for the long bather.

[wook77.livejournal.com]

I guess I haven't seen the crit in question here. I have seen some concrit at smutmas and it's all been about the mechanics of the story that doesn't relate (or should't relate) to the request. For example... there was a piece of concrit about a timeline in the story being confusing. That's a mechanics issue that relates to the author. I don't see anyone saying "hey, give me a confusing timeline".

I would never comment on something that could be construed as part of a request (ie, the bottom!harry comment in discussion). We all have our preferences and I would assume that that was a request.

I'm thinking I'm probably splitting hairs here but basically what I mean is things that could be construed as part of the request (scenario, pairing, top/bottom, etc), I wouldn't comment on. Mechanics of the story (phrasing, awkward dialogue, plot holes, etc), I would.

[geniusartist.livejournal.com]

Hi -- I'm here via The Daily Snitch. And I agree with everyone who's already stated that leaving concrit on gift fics is inappropriate. I also think it's in poor taste.

I stumbled onto someone's LJ the other day and discovered that this person is publicly posting negative (IMHO) reviews of all the smutmas stories. It made me sick to my stomach. The idea of someone taking another person's "gift" and smashing it to bits in public (and without regard for the gifter or giftee -- particularly as the anon author can't respond at this time) is revolting to me.

[mayflo.livejournal.com]

Welp, I woudln't mind getting concrit myself. Just because it's a gif art, doesn't mean it's perfect. I myself see flaws and wonkiness in my own art :P Plus art is so much easier to detect who the artist is (very hard to conceal one's style, darnit) so the person might be saying that because they recognised you.

On the other hand, whenever you get a negative FB, that's gotta hurt no matter what *ouch* That'll make me all sukly and mopy but I'll get over it :P

Personally though, I would never leave a con-crit (unless there's something like an obvious error like a misspelling as in Hairry ot something *lol* That, I may point out) but never a negative comment. I never leave negative comments. I'm following a great advise from my flist that if you don't have something nice to say, then say nothing at all...!

[mayflo.livejournal.com]

"Sorry, I know you said any of these pairings [list], but I hate all of them, so I wrote you Kreacher/Filch instead. Also, I can't write bottom!Kreacher like you requested at all, it just squicks me, so you'll just have to deal"

Good grace, that'll piss off anyone, even if it's not your request. The whole point of an exchange is totally void there XD

But I feel sorry for whoever had to write for me cos I might've overdone and asked too many things... *sheepish*

[lavinialavender.livejournal.com]

I think it differs from case-to-case, but I think many authors, who value their writing skill and want to improve (professionally or not), want concrit even in these cases. I think only if it's a gift fic for a specific person, and especially if it's done lightly, it would be a little inappropriate to leave really heavy concrit.

[twigged.livejournal.com]

I'm late to the party here, so I'll just say I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[ceilidh]

I think it's tacky to concrit a gift fic in public, mostly because of the recipient's feelings than anything to do with the author. If you want to concrit a gift fic, do it in email to the author. You could be spoiling the recipient's fun by publically broadcasting your oh-so-helpful concrit. (you = random fic concritter, not you = geoviki!)

I think it's extremely, incredibly tacky to concrit a gift fic in an anonymous exchange, especially while the author is still anonymous! I have seen pages of self-righteous commentary on certain Smutmas fics taking place on various livejournals, and the only thing I can think of that's tackier is actually doing it on the fic post itself. Most authors who are amenable to concrit would actually like to respond to that concrit, but they can't for possibly a month or more if it's an anon fest. If you're just chomping at the bit to concrit, write up your concrit and then SAVE IT and email it to the author after they can claim it as theirs.

The only time I feel it's appropriate to concrit a fic written for you as a gift is if it's clear the person clearly disregarded your prompt. If you say 'no bondage please' and there is bondage, well, I would probably call that out. (in PRIVATE email with the author.) I would never criticize something other than blatant disregard of your requests, because for all you know, your fic could have been a pinch hit done by a very gracious person at the extreme last minute because the person who was supposed to write for you dropped out.

[joanwilder.livejournal.com]

For me, it comes down to the gift-thing. As I'm out of the loop on what was asked for, far be it from me to diminish the recipient's enjoyment by pointing out things that are perhaps related to her request.

Many authors are writing 'out of their element.' The finished product will not be perfect--there may be awkwardness/OCC-ness/plot difficulties, but I dare say that most have done their best to produce what was requested. And as a recipient, I'll be honored that a writer took the time and effort to give me what I wanted, and I'll pin that up proudly on my figurative refrigerator and love every macaroni piece of it, because it's mine.

I will say, however, that after the fest is over, I plan to post my merry_smutmas on my own jounal. Concrit is always welcome there. That's the place for it, not now in the fest communities.

[xochiquetzl]

I totally agree. I was going to leave a similar example:

Mrs. Weasley: Happy Christmas, Harry! I knitted you a sweater. Try it on! I think the green will bring out your eyes.
Harry: Thanks, Mrs. Weasley! It's great! I love it!
Percy: Look at those arms! They're much too long. That sweater must have been knitted for an orangutan!

[imkalena.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. Criticizing somebody else's gift is just WRONG. For all the commenter knows, those things they don't approve of could be exactly what the requestor wanted.