You're so ... Don't ever change...
Jul. 28th, 2004 02:59 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
geovikiI'd like to pontificate a bit about one common criticism of fanfic characterization: the dreaded label "OOC" - out of character. (file this under: OOC? WTF!)
Yes, a few of my carefully crafted portrayals have been the recipient of such a label; why do you ask?
After spending far too much time worrying about avoiding this apparently serious sin, I've come to re-evaluate what it means. My conclusion: while it may not be a totally useless designation, it lives in a town not far from irrelevant. OOC may be a valid criticism of a work of fiction that presumes to write Book 6 of JKR's HP series. For other works of fanfiction, I would anticipate the writer would try to sell any characterization changes during the course of the story. If this doesn't occur to my satisfaction, I would make the more specific charge that the story didn't provide enough support to justify the behaviour of the characters.
Because what most people tend to mean by OOC is that it doesn't match their vision of the One True Character (OTC). Which presumes that the critic's OTC is 1) singular and 2) easily discernible from canon.
To me, this presumption breaks down beyond repair for the student characters in HP. Because, of course, canonical things are revealed about Hogwarts students who are, for the most part, between the ages of 11 and 15. Through the eyes of a character who is himself between the ages of 11 and 15, with limited awareness of both the wizarding world and healthy interpersonal relations.
To be specific, to presume a fixed OTC for someone like Draco Malfoy, based on Harry's not nearly objective perspective, is probably a foolish endeavor. (At least I hope so; otherwise I sincerely hope that my old junior high school nemesis, Amy Ramsey, never discovers LJ and has the urge to post about me. Otherwise you might be tempted to think of me as someone rather Malfoy-like).
It's a little like being convinced that the car driving down my street must be heading for Vail. Well, it's obvious - they're going west! Although I could be a little closer with my assessment if it weren't July, or if the car was bedecked with skis and a ski rack. But they could instead be on their way to Aspen. Or if the car was a 1987 Dodge, maybe they're going to Loveland. If I flagged them down, though, and they explained they were going to the flea market to sell the skis, I could accept that story.
So next time you are tempted to use the term OOC, I urge you to do the author a favor by clarifying the reasons the fic didn't support your conversion to their idea of the OTC.
Your thoughts?
Yes, a few of my carefully crafted portrayals have been the recipient of such a label; why do you ask?
After spending far too much time worrying about avoiding this apparently serious sin, I've come to re-evaluate what it means. My conclusion: while it may not be a totally useless designation, it lives in a town not far from irrelevant. OOC may be a valid criticism of a work of fiction that presumes to write Book 6 of JKR's HP series. For other works of fanfiction, I would anticipate the writer would try to sell any characterization changes during the course of the story. If this doesn't occur to my satisfaction, I would make the more specific charge that the story didn't provide enough support to justify the behaviour of the characters.
Because what most people tend to mean by OOC is that it doesn't match their vision of the One True Character (OTC). Which presumes that the critic's OTC is 1) singular and 2) easily discernible from canon.
To me, this presumption breaks down beyond repair for the student characters in HP. Because, of course, canonical things are revealed about Hogwarts students who are, for the most part, between the ages of 11 and 15. Through the eyes of a character who is himself between the ages of 11 and 15, with limited awareness of both the wizarding world and healthy interpersonal relations.
To be specific, to presume a fixed OTC for someone like Draco Malfoy, based on Harry's not nearly objective perspective, is probably a foolish endeavor. (At least I hope so; otherwise I sincerely hope that my old junior high school nemesis, Amy Ramsey, never discovers LJ and has the urge to post about me. Otherwise you might be tempted to think of me as someone rather Malfoy-like).
It's a little like being convinced that the car driving down my street must be heading for Vail. Well, it's obvious - they're going west! Although I could be a little closer with my assessment if it weren't July, or if the car was bedecked with skis and a ski rack. But they could instead be on their way to Aspen. Or if the car was a 1987 Dodge, maybe they're going to Loveland. If I flagged them down, though, and they explained they were going to the flea market to sell the skis, I could accept that story.
So next time you are tempted to use the term OOC, I urge you to do the author a favor by clarifying the reasons the fic didn't support your conversion to their idea of the OTC.
Your thoughts?
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no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 02:19 pm (UTC)But then my characterisations get liberallly labelled OOC, so I would say that, wouldn't I?
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Date: 2004-07-29 11:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 02:25 pm (UTC)Thanks!!
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Date: 2004-07-29 11:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 02:28 pm (UTC)I've been convinced by some quite strikingly different variations on their characters, when writers have shown me good reasons why they would turn out in such a way.
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Date: 2004-07-29 11:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 02:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 11:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 03:26 pm (UTC)Then again, it may be that (as was asserted in an LJ discussion recently) I can't quite grasp the relevance a canon shipper might place on the IC/OOC distinction simply because I don't have that point of reference: I'm a fanon shipper every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so maybe I just don't speak the language. I'd much rather imagine what my favorite characters could be up to in terms of relationships than try to find "evidence" of them within JKR's text. Likewise, I'm a lot less interested in who Draco is than who he might be, and I love an author who can convince me of her view.
Which is a long way of saying <shrugs> To each her own, I suppose.
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Date: 2004-07-28 09:22 pm (UTC)I'd much rather imagine what my favorite characters could be up to in terms of relationships than try to find "evidence" of them within JKR's text. Likewise, I'm a lot less interested in who Draco is than who he might be, and I love an author who can convince me of her view.
Same here. For me the purpose of fanfiction is not to try to be canon; I couldn't care less. It's to explore other possibilities, whether through AU (and to me, really, AU is anything that differs even slightly from canon) or by taking a different look at a character or what have you. If I want canon, I'll read the book. I boggle every time I see someone bemoaning the fact that their epic is now AU due to events of OotP or whatever. Personally I can't imagine anything that matters less.
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Date: 2004-07-29 12:16 pm (UTC)If I want canon, I'll read the book.
Well put. I'm looking for variety. If there was only one way for each character to behave, all the fics would look alike, and how boring would that be?
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Date: 2004-07-29 11:58 am (UTC)I like that sentence!
I'm not too fussed about canonicity, either, so I'm totally with you on that. And I don't think any folks I follow on LJ preach that sermon, either, so I'm tempted to ignore it. (And now I've considered it, I'm still tempted to ignore it!)
I'm a lot less interested in who Draco is than who he might be
That's a great conclusion, too!
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
Date: 2004-07-28 03:48 pm (UTC)Um, and I'll amend that with a special HP-specific clause:
And snotty cunts who think their profound understanding of the fandom is utterly objective and factual.
okay, that's not really HP-specific, but I've certainly found it more applicable in the wild and woolly domain o' HP.
Re: I've said it before, I'll say it again:
Date: 2004-07-29 12:01 pm (UTC)Which isn't what I look for when I read. Or write, either, for that matter.
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Date: 2004-07-28 05:58 pm (UTC)Second, I absolutely, positively agree with you. I've also been accused of writing OOC-ness, and in multiple fandoms at that. The first thing I always think of when I'm so accused is, "Hello, I'm writing this character as being gay. Of course that isn't canon!" The thing that kills me is that in canon, Harry and Draco are neither gay nor a couple, nor will they ever be! People who think that's even a remote possibility are off their rockers.
But fan fiction is a wonderful world because we can twist things around however we like! Soome have a slavish devotion to canon, and prefer to read and write fics that could fit in well with JKR's universe. (I think this is extremely difficult to do, but I give them props for the attempt.) I fall in that other camp that likes to imagine all the possibilities there could be, if you just tweak that universe a little. It allows the writer a level of creativity that comes a lot closer to actual writing, IMO. It's the difference between being able to play a classical piece with perfection, and being able to tweak it to give it your own unoque interpretation.
Your point about post-Hogwarts fic is especially valid, IMO. I think people could make a case that a fic set in fifth year could portray the boys as far too OOC for most fans, but I don't understand how people can make this argument about fics that take place five-fifteen years after the series is over! You state above that one can't predict how a current 15-year-old will act or be or think in ten years, and you're absolutely right. And thank the gods for that! People's characters are not set at that age, and any number of factors could make them become a wide variety of adults. I agree that a writer has the responsibility to make a case that a character could go down a particular path, but of course, what constitutes enough evidence depends on the reader. You won't be able to please everyone ini that regard.
I think the label of OOC is often used to malign a characterization that a reader simply doesn't like. I don't think anyone, save JKR herself, can really claim the right to say that any characterization of Draco Malfoy is OOC.
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Date: 2004-07-29 08:25 am (UTC)It's true, we'll probably never see any overt presentation of a gay couple in the HP series by JKR. However, most of the characters' sexuality is not addressed in any way, leaving open the very reasonable presumption that some percentage of them, just like in RL, is gay (or are if you like).
If it has to be overt in the books to be IC, then there are an enormous number of characters about whom almost no fanfic can be written.
I don't think anyone, save JKR herself, can really claim the right to say that any characterization of Draco Malfoy is OOC.
Fromm the standpoint of LitCrit, even she does not have this power. She can, of course, write something that incontrovertibly eliminates certain possibilities -- as she did by killing off Sirius in OotP. But if she doesn't do so directly, she sacrifices control as soon as the words leave her head and appear before the reader as "text."
Even Shakespeare doesn't get to tell us what Hamlet and Horatio did or did not do in their school days.
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Date: 2004-07-29 03:45 pm (UTC)So now I'm wondering if there's Shakespeare slashfic!
If it has to be overt in the books to be IC, then there are an enormous number of characters about whom almost no fanfic can be written.
Good point. So, IC-OOC-ness is a continuum. And the reviewer apparently can pinpoint the crossover from IC to OOC with military-scale precision. I guess I should be in awe, then, rather than whining as I am. Hee!
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Date: 2004-07-29 10:01 pm (UTC)the reviewer apparently can pinpoint the crossover from IC to OOC with military-scale precision. I guess I should be in awe, then, rather than whining as I am.
Damn straight! Now quit your whining, soldier and load that "canon" right. ;?)
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Date: 2004-07-29 03:40 pm (UTC)Oh, I like that analogy. I'm with you; I like variety and theinnovative use of JKR's world. And I'm willing to accept a lot of things that maybe a few readers won't.
Actually, your little hate_thread was one of the motivations for this rantlet. I thought you did a fine job of selling your characters, and OOC never once crossed my mind. For some reviewers, it's an easy charge to make, and one that is hard to explain - so they don't bother.
3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-28 05:59 pm (UTC)Went so far as to say that there's no such thing in fanfiction with a little work on characterization, just internal inconsistencies, and if a careless one line review screams OOC! to certain directions the fic is going in, then, uh, whatever.
I mean with about six lines of Draco from the Goblet of Fire, can you really go THAT OOC? as if JKR gave him much room in the first place.
I think it's usually OOC from *other* fanfiction, and the objection is to a marked divergence from recognizable ff. bleh. so, what one would wish to see, screaming OOC, are carbon copy fics? really.
Frankly, I'd like to see more crazy AU's.
:)
I find that - this is in RL teaching- I have to reassure my students that *first* you give the text a chance, second, you try to love it, and third, "critiquing" does NOT "criticizing".
on a lighter tangential note,
- had fun all morning scoffing at/laughing over
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 05:37 am (UTC)Exactly! So your characterization is either OOC, or hopelessly cliched. Damned either way. *snort*
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 05:54 pm (UTC)OOC?
In fic, we'd like to call it re-interpretation.
*Jane Eyre* too white? *Wide Sargasso Sea*.
Beowulf to human-centric? John Gardner's *Grendel* always slays me.
(The animated *Grendel Grendel Grendel*? kills me sobbing)
And I should shut up already about the gay Swan Lake- meh. You never want to see girls in tutus again, when you have muscular sweaty dudes in feather pants.
The author is dead dudes, long live fanfiction.
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 06:26 pm (UTC)sweaty dudes in feather pants
Hee!
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 06:49 pm (UTC)They're doing it again at Sadler Wells this Winter.
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 03:50 pm (UTC)Well, I already had my official fanfic_hate rant, so I suppose I should lay off that topic, huh?
Re: 3 OOC discussions all coming together
Date: 2004-07-29 05:48 pm (UTC)Though since it's like a celebrity roast,
kudos.
I might have promised xylodemon (down there) that next time around they do Potterslash on fichate, I'd anonymously throw her in.
but twas very late, in another country, besides the wench is dead.
*bad quotage of Marlowe means dinner time*
no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 07:23 pm (UTC)*shiver*
Pointlessness, really.
I will admit, I have tried to keep my characters relatively canon in Phoenix Song. However, for every ten reviews about how spot on my characterization is, I get one an email about how OOC everyone is.
To this, all I can say is, "Well, I've gone and made Harry and Draco gay. WTF did you expect?"
And as had been said elsewhere here, we are given dreadfully little to work with, as far as Draco is concerned. His largest amount of page-time, to date, was when he was eleven. If you are going to write a Draco that is sixteen, twenty-one, or thirty-five, you are going to have to make it up as you go along.
Because what most people tend to mean by OOC is that it doesn't match their vision of the One True Character (OTC).
I think you are right, here. Its very easy, when you have read entirely too much fanfic (as I have), to get an particular idea in your head about how a certain character *should be*-- which, oddly, is not even close to how they are portrayed in the books.
J
no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 03:54 pm (UTC)Oh, like this icon Draco of mine - all 30 versions? Yup, I definitely have my own version of Draco!
But if you are crafty enough, I can be convinced of yours.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 05:43 pm (UTC)(*creepy talk to self bit* no, he is NOT Boyd; he's DRACO-stamps foot in manner of 3 year old)
Ever since you put up your Draco pictures in March for ATBT, he's taken over my mind as Draco.
except when I fantasize that Adam Cooper/version Swan, does a better sexy.
-off to get on another sugar high-
no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 06:21 pm (UTC)Exactly. Whether or not a fanfiction author's characterization of Harry/Draco/Ron/Hermione/Hedwig/Dobby matches with my mental picture is not the point-- its whether or not they can make me believe it.
Which, is why, I think people should not be so quick to scream OOC, because with *fanfiction*, its a matter of perspective.
J
Re: not that there's anything wrong with that.
Date: 2004-07-29 03:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-28 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 04:00 pm (UTC)And assuming that even the adults are set in stone is something only a very young writer would assume.
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Date: 2004-07-28 09:54 pm (UTC)I agree that the term "OOC" is mostly taken to mean 'OMG! YOU ARE NOT WRITING THE WAY I WANT YOU TO' rather than 'this doesn't seem like a logical extrapolation from canon,' which is what it should mean. But I don't think you can say 'Bad! Take it away!'
OOC is when an extrapolation is unjustified. I once read this fic a long time ago in which Remus was a prostitute out of... some wizard bar ala the Leaky Cauldron. Actually, it might have been the Leaky Cauldron. This story was set directly after PoA and... well the polite reaction was 'Uh...' (You can find a less polite review of this story here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/ficbitches/12754.html) written by the Ficbitches ages ago.) This jump from canon to the story did not work. There simply wasn't enough logical justification for the story to be anything but simply ridiculous.
Note the twice emphasized "logical." I'm sorry, but all those stories in which Harry/Hermione/insert wizard here go to college? Not logical. That would be OOC for any of the characters in canon to achieve.
Now, take say
So, I don't think it's such a bad term at all, really.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 12:29 pm (UTC)Ha! I read that Remus fic, because I am a real sucker for rentboy!HP, and had the same reaction - I wasn't sold on the events and behavior that the story based itself on. (And that review was hilarious!) And that's a valid criticism, of course.
The problem is, as you say, that the term OOC has been used much more frequently to mean 'OMG! YOU ARE NOT WRITING THE WAY I WANT YOU TO' than it has been used to mean "You haven't sold me on your views of this character." So as a concrit phrase, it has become too vague and is often irritating to the author.
Maybe it's a personal annoyance, but when someone tosses off OOC at a fic of mine as the be-all and end-all of their feedback, I want more than that. Where? How? What sections, which premises, what actions make you say that? Where did my logic break down for you? But I'm not unique in that; all writers like detailed feedback the best.
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Date: 2004-07-29 04:02 pm (UTC)But I can completely understand the desire to have that detailed critique when someone says that. It's nice to know, even if you don't plan on writing to their vision, but I really think sometimes there might not be a deeper reason than 'you couldn't sell me.'
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Date: 2004-07-29 02:30 am (UTC)I quickly changed it.
And then, look what happens in OOTP, Harry is starting to defend himself against the dursleys.
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Date: 2004-07-29 12:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 03:57 am (UTC)I think the degree of character development (and therefore the justification of allegations OOC-ness) that can be expected between canon and a future-fic depends on the age of the character. The older characters ought undoubtedly be seen as more static than the teenagers. In the unlikely event that Dumbledore survives the war, would it have affected his character much? There might be more emphasis on his looking old and exhausted: he might very well retire from public life and take up bee-keeping in Sussex. But I'd be surprised if he turned into a camp, gossipy character who was obsessed with the Weird Sisters (though now I've said that, someone will point me to a fic where a brilliant writer has made that concept work.) The spectrum of possibility for Dumbledore is much narrower than it is for Harry.
Likewise with the other adult characters: I have twice started and attempted to read a fairly well-known fic by a well-known author and I've never got past the paragraph where Snape "exclaims" something "enthusiastically". That, to me, is totally OOC. Granted, this is a fic set at Hogwarts, but I don't know whether I could read a future fic where Snape exclaims things enthusiastically. I'd love to see some sort of resolution in the war that renders Snape less bitter, less resentful, and less sensitive to every perceived slight. But I think it might be beyond the bounds of my imagination that Snape could achieve enthusiasm after forty-odd years of extinguishing every drop.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-29 08:11 am (UTC)I just love this. I agree that it would be very hard to create a context in which Snape would "exclaim enthusiastically." Of the adult characters, he's perhaps the most sharply-drawn and that means there seem to be clear delimitations of how he "might" behave.
The one out as I see it is the child's-POV one. Even that, however, is tenuous as Harry sees Snape interacting not just with students but with a variety of adults as well, and none of those interactions suggests enthusiastic exclamation.
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Date: 2004-07-29 04:07 pm (UTC)Oh, and welcome; thanks for stopping in!
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Date: 2004-08-04 05:45 am (UTC)I posted an answer to this in my journal (http://www.livejournal.com/users/malafede/83685.html#cutid2), and thought to let you know.